Responding to and Confounding error. Discussing theology and the important issues of the day.
"And He was giving orders to them, saying, 'Watch out! Beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and the leaven of Herod.'" --Mark 8:15
Friday, November 13, 2009
Eschatology blogging--Let the discussion continue!
Current discussion is on the Seventy Weeks of Daniel between Gary and Rick.
So let's start with Daniel 9. Seventy weeks are decreed. First question: why should there be a two-thousand+ year period interjected between weeks 69 and 70? In my view there is no basis for that.
But isn't that making the scripture fit one's theology? There were also 7 weeks followed by 62 weeks. These all flowed together consecutively. THe final week should also follow the previous 69 in continuous succession.
If you look at what is to be accomplished in the time this prophecy speaks of, it is all part of the finished work of Christ, and the close of the old order that was about to vanish away according to our study in Hebrews.
to finish [Hebrew=restrain] the transgression,
Behold, I send My messenger before Your face, who shall prepare Your way before You. Mar 1:3 The voice of one crying in the wilderness, prepare the way of the Lord, make His paths straight."
and to make an end of sins,
Heb 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; Rom 6:7 For the person who has died has been freed from sin.
and to make atonement for iniquity,
Rom 5:11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.
and to bring in everlasting righteousness,
Rom 5:21 that as sin ruled in death, so also grace might rule through righteousness to everlasting life, through Jesus Christ our Lord. Rom 10:4 For Christ is the end of Law for righteousness to everyone that believes
and to seal up the vision and prophecy,
Luk 18:31 And having taken aside the Twelve, He said to them, Behold, we are going up to Jerusalem, and all things will be fulfilled which have been written through the prophets to the Son of Man. ,
and to anoint the Most Holy
Luk 4:18 "The Spirit of the Lord is on Me; because of this He has anointed Me to proclaim the Gospel to the poor. He has sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to proclaim deliverance to the captives, and new sight to the blind, to set at liberty those having been crushed,
Luk 4:19 to proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord."
Let me give you the “fulfilled” take on the rest of the passage.
Dan 9:25-27 (25) Know therefore and understand, that from the going out of the command to restore and to build Jerusalem, to Messiah the Prince, shall be seven weeks, and sixty-two weeks. The street shall be built again, and the wall, even in times of affliction. (26) And after sixty-two weeks Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself. And the people of the ruler who shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. And the end of it shall be with the flood, and ruins are determined, until the end shall be war. (27) And he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week. And in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the offering to cease, and on a corner of the altar desolating abominations, even until the end. And that which was decreed shall be poured on the desolator.
V. 25: I think we might agree on this verse. The wall was rebuilt, as recorded by Nehemiah. They were harassed throughout the rebuilding by the likes of Sanballat.
V. 26: After the 62 weeks (which here brings the total to 69 weeks) Christ was cut off—but not as a result of his own iniquity.
Isa 53:8 He was taken from prison and from judgment; and who shall declare His generation? For He was * CUT OFF* out of the land of the living; for the transgression of My people He was stricken.
The war, the end and the ruins speak of the total destruction of Jerusalem and the removal of the old system.
V. 27: Christ established the new covenant. His ministry lasted until the middle of a week, or 3.5 years (half of a 7 year period)
Christ brought a permanent end to the system of animal sacrifice. The whole system was overthrown in 70 AD because it was a desolate system. See the next passage…
Mat 23:37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one killing the prophets and stoning those who are sent to her, how often would I have gathered your children together, even as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you would not! 38 Behold, your *HOUSE is left to you DESOLATE*.
So 70 weeks were prophesied equaling 490 years from Daniel’s time until the new covenant was established and the old taken away. The prophecy said it would be 490 years, not 483 years, + 2000-some more years. The time frame seems clear. And the elements of the prophecy were fulfilled.
I think it would be interesting to see if the early church fathers had anything to say on the subject. I'm aware that the fathers and reformers didn't focus much on eschatology, but I wonder if the fathers had much to say about what happened in A.D. 70.
So let's start with Daniel 9. Seventy weeks are decreed. First question: why should there be a two-thousand+ year period interjected between weeks 69 and 70? In my view there is no basis for that.
ReplyDeleteGary
Gary,
ReplyDeletefor me the reason for the gap is the formation and completion of the church of Jesus Christ.
Rick
Rick,
ReplyDeleteBut isn't that making the scripture fit one's theology? There were also 7 weeks followed by 62 weeks. These all flowed together consecutively. THe final week should also follow the previous 69 in continuous succession.
If you look at what is to be accomplished in the time this prophecy speaks of, it is all part of the finished work of Christ, and the close of the old order that was about to vanish away according to our study in Hebrews.
to finish [Hebrew=restrain] the transgression,
Behold, I send My messenger before Your face, who shall prepare Your way before You. Mar 1:3 The voice of one crying in the wilderness, prepare the way of the Lord, make His paths straight."
and to make an end of sins,
Heb 9:28
So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many;
Rom 6:7
For the person who has died has been freed from sin.
and to make atonement for iniquity,
Rom 5:11
And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.
and to bring in everlasting righteousness,
Rom 5:21 that as sin ruled in death, so also grace might rule through righteousness to everlasting life, through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Rom 10:4
For Christ is the end of Law for righteousness to everyone that believes
and to seal up the vision and prophecy,
Luk 18:31
And having taken aside the Twelve, He said to them, Behold, we are going up to Jerusalem, and all things will be fulfilled which have been written through the prophets to the Son of Man. ,
and to anoint the Most Holy
Luk 4:18 "The Spirit of the Lord is on Me; because of this He has anointed Me to proclaim the Gospel to the poor. He has sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to proclaim deliverance to the captives, and new sight to the blind, to set at liberty those having been crushed,
Luk 4:19
to proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord."
What I mean to say is, there is no 200+ year gap. There is no justification for forcing this on the text.
ReplyDeleteGary
Let me give you the “fulfilled” take on the rest of the passage.
ReplyDeleteDan 9:25-27
(25) Know therefore and understand, that from the going out of the command to restore and to build Jerusalem, to Messiah the Prince, shall be seven weeks, and sixty-two weeks. The street shall be built again, and the wall, even in times of affliction.
(26) And after sixty-two weeks Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself. And the people of the ruler who shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. And the end of it shall be with the flood, and ruins are determined, until the end shall be war.
(27) And he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week. And in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the offering to cease, and on a corner of the altar desolating abominations, even until the end. And that which was decreed shall be poured on the desolator.
V. 25: I think we might agree on this verse. The wall was rebuilt, as recorded by Nehemiah. They were harassed throughout the rebuilding by the likes of Sanballat.
V. 26: After the 62 weeks (which here brings the total to 69 weeks) Christ was cut off—but not as a result of his own iniquity.
Isa 53:8 He was taken from prison and from judgment; and who shall declare His generation? For He was * CUT OFF* out of the land of the living; for the transgression of My people He was stricken.
The war, the end and the ruins speak of the
total destruction of Jerusalem and the removal of the old system.
V. 27: Christ established the new covenant. His ministry lasted until the middle of a week, or 3.5 years (half of a 7 year period)
Christ brought a permanent end to the system of animal sacrifice. The whole system was overthrown in 70 AD because it was a desolate system. See the next passage…
Mat 23:37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one killing the prophets and stoning those who are sent to her, how often would I have gathered your children together, even as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you would not! 38 Behold, your *HOUSE is left to you DESOLATE*.
So 70 weeks were prophesied equaling 490 years from Daniel’s time until the new covenant was established and the old taken away. The prophecy said it would be 490 years, not 483 years, + 2000-some more years. The time frame seems clear. And the elements of the prophecy were fulfilled.
Gary
I think it would be interesting to see if the early church fathers had anything to say on the subject. I'm aware that the fathers and reformers didn't focus much on eschatology, but I wonder if the fathers had much to say about what happened in A.D. 70.
ReplyDeleteIn fact, see my post on what the Fathers said. Most believe that the 70 weeks were completed by A.D. 70, but not all.
ReplyDelete